Tuesday, July 11, 2006
The Armchair Apologist: Sola Fide
The Armchair Apologist is a series of posts at SouthCon dedicated to matters of faith and religion. Click here to see an index of Armchair Apologist posts. You are welcome to comment on any of these items, but before commenting, please READ THE RULES. To suggest a topic or make a comment by e-mail, send your remarks to armchair@darwen.us
Sola Fide: The Greatest Trick
"Every one who would obtain the righteousness of Christ must renounce his own." - John Calvin
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." - Keyser Soze
No disrespect intended to the infamous Turkish gangster, but Keyser Soze got it wrong. The real greatest trick that the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that simply believing in Jesus as the Savior is enough to make it to Heaven.
The doctrine of Sola Fide, which asserts that faith alone is necessary for salvation, is summed up this way at Wikipedia:
The doctrine of sola fide, as formulated by Martin Luther, is accepted by most Protestants, including Lutherans, Reformed and Baptists; and as ordinarily articulated by Protestants, it was rejected by Catholics, who say through God's Grace, and our response to that Grace through our faith and works, we are saved. They also add a distinction between the good works, as those in Matthew 25, and the works of law. Differences remain between the two churches regarding the actual way grace justifies a person …
Wikipedia also has a good list of scriptural sources that both support and refute Sola Fide.It's my belief that the verses sited as support for Sola Fide can only be seen as supporting the doctrine if they're twisted out of context and misinterpreted to reach a predetermined end.
What we get into here are differences in nuance and interpretation. I agree that faith in Christ as Savior is a requirement, and I agree adamantly with the principle of the primacy of that faith. I'll never believe, though, that faith alone is enough.
Ultimately, the main problem with Sola Fide is that it has become, for many Christians I have known, a crutch that they rely on to justify just about any and every kind of sin. I'll give examples in a bit. My point is this: I believe that if a person honestly believes that faith in Christ as the savior is all they need for salvation, it is very easy to take that belief and get on a road that leads straight to hell.
For one thing, I don't believe that Christian worship was intended to be devoid of sacramental practice. The Lord instituted the last supper, and I believe that the partaking of the Eucharist, the receiving of the real presence of Christ, is an important part of salvation. The arguments for that, though, are largely based on my belief in the Real Presence, and that's a topic for another post.
I believe that Sola Fide, combined with Sola Scriptura (the belief in the Bible as the sole source of God's revelation) has lead to terrible neglect and dangerous beliefs among many Christians. That has certainly been true among some of the Fundamentalists that I've known. I've known many people who consider themselves to be Christian Fundamentalists who've told me that they simply don't need to go to church, that their faith and the Bible alone were enough to save them. They might have been able to convince me of that if the every-day examples that they set for me were Christian… but Christian principle only seemed to cross their mind when it was the specific topic of discussion.
Even among the church going Sola Fide believers I've known, the terrible void left by that doctrine has always been obvious to me. So many of the "Christians" I've known have gagged on gnats and swallowed camels. It is not my place to judge them, and I don't mean to judge them… but I feel confident in saying that the examples that they presented for me weren't Christian.
I've known so many people who called themselves Fundamentalist Christians… they'd attend Church on Sunday morning and then go to work on Monday morning and spend the first hour of the day bragging about the debauchery of Friday Night and Saturday Night. Where is the faith from Sunday morning, the faith that supposedly alone justifies them before Christ? Is it really enough to spend an hour a week talking about Jesus and professing to have faith in him?
The Apostle Paul said "I have been crucified with Christ; yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me." (Galatians 2:19-20)I believe that being crucified with Christ and coming to a state where your life is really him living through you requires a great deal more than simply professing faith.
It assuredly requires more than merely professing it once a week.
Let me relate one specific story, one of the last and biggest straws that broke the camel's back for me with regard to Fundamentalism. At the last Fundamentalist church that Wendy and I attended, there was a Deacon who was also a co-worker of mine. This guy wasn't just another church-goer, he was a DEACON. On Sunday mornings, he'd pass around the grape juice and crackers that serve as the Fundamentalist imitation of the Eucharist… and then at work all week I'd sit and grind my teeth in silence as he'd make sexually suggestive remarks to our female co-workers. On one specific occasion that I'll never forget he bragged very enthusiastically about having forced his wife to participate in sexual acts that she found degrading.
This was a DEACON. It isn't my place to judge him, but I found it hard to believe that through his faith alone he'd been crucified with Christ; that it was no longer he who lived but Christ who lived through him.
Once you're a DEACON, for pity's sake, shouldn't you at least consider the example you're setting for others outside the church?
Not that I'm perfect. I'm not trying to say that I am. I'm a sinner, too… the difference is that I had come to realize that I needed a church that preached something other than Sola Fide… I needed a church that taught that any real faith in Christ will make a change in the the way you live. In other words, I needed a church that taught that faith and works go hand in hand. Today, I'm a Roman Catholic.
I'll end with a few verses that sum up my understanding of faith and how it works:
Romans 3:8 -- "And why not say--as we are accused and as some claim we say--that we should do evil that good may come of it? Their penalty is what they deserve."
Ephesians 2:8-10 -- "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so no one may boast. For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them."
Permalink -- Posted by Darrell at 12:56 
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[Sound of rolling up sleeves] Hi Darrell, first let me say that I admire and respect any Christian who undertakes apologetics. I believe it is vital that we know what we believe and why we believe it.
Without writing a book here, let me make a couple of initial responses to your sola fide article.
What I hear you reacting to is antinominism, an error that is often ascribed to those of the Reformation.
I find that I - as a thoroughly convinced Lutheran - disagree with very little of what you wrote.
What is meant by "faith?" Is faith simply declaring that one believes in God. No, even the devil believes in God and shudders. Is faith merely believing that Jesus is the Son of God who died for the sins of the world. No, again, the devil understands this much. The Lutheran Confessions state that faith is how we "lay hold upon, accept, and apply, and appropriate them (the treasures of Christ) to ourselves."
Faith - by definition - includes contrition and repentance. And this kind of faith, alone, justifies the sinner in the eyes of God. But such faith is never truly alone.
The Lutheran Confessions also state that it is just as impossible to separate true living faith from a life of good works as it is to separate heat from light in fire. No one can have faith who does not have repentance.
The important distinction, in my view, is that btwn justification and sanctification. I say "distinction" not "division." Am I righteous in the eyes of God on account of Christ only or on account of both Christ and my own merits?
My understanding is that we are counted righteous on account of what Christ alone has done. And believing, laying hold, accepting, applying and appropriating that to myself is what I mean by "sola fide."
Sanctification refers to the inner renewal, transformation and life of good works that necessarily follows justification (not temporally but logically).
Well, I better stop writing now. Thanks for the good topic and the forum to discuss it.
Without writing a book here, let me make a couple of initial responses to your sola fide article.
What I hear you reacting to is antinominism, an error that is often ascribed to those of the Reformation.
I find that I - as a thoroughly convinced Lutheran - disagree with very little of what you wrote.
What is meant by "faith?" Is faith simply declaring that one believes in God. No, even the devil believes in God and shudders. Is faith merely believing that Jesus is the Son of God who died for the sins of the world. No, again, the devil understands this much. The Lutheran Confessions state that faith is how we "lay hold upon, accept, and apply, and appropriate them (the treasures of Christ) to ourselves."
Faith - by definition - includes contrition and repentance. And this kind of faith, alone, justifies the sinner in the eyes of God. But such faith is never truly alone.
The Lutheran Confessions also state that it is just as impossible to separate true living faith from a life of good works as it is to separate heat from light in fire. No one can have faith who does not have repentance.
The important distinction, in my view, is that btwn justification and sanctification. I say "distinction" not "division." Am I righteous in the eyes of God on account of Christ only or on account of both Christ and my own merits?
My understanding is that we are counted righteous on account of what Christ alone has done. And believing, laying hold, accepting, applying and appropriating that to myself is what I mean by "sola fide."
Sanctification refers to the inner renewal, transformation and life of good works that necessarily follows justification (not temporally but logically).
Well, I better stop writing now. Thanks for the good topic and the forum to discuss it.
My understanding is that we are counted righteous on account of what Christ alone has done. And believing, laying hold, accepting, applying and appropriating that to myself is what I mean by "sola fide."
Thanks for the comment. I get the impression that maybe what much of I'm reacting to is really a perversion of Sola Fide. Nonetheless, I do believe that we are called to do good works, and I'd site Christ's washing of the feet of the apostles as an example.
I hope for more input! We're off to a good start!
It'll possibly be Thursday before I can really read and participate again, but I encourage everyone with an opinion to offer it.
Thanks for the comment. I get the impression that maybe what much of I'm reacting to is really a perversion of Sola Fide. Nonetheless, I do believe that we are called to do good works, and I'd site Christ's washing of the feet of the apostles as an example.
I hope for more input! We're off to a good start!
It'll possibly be Thursday before I can really read and participate again, but I encourage everyone with an opinion to offer it.
Oooh, I just can't help myself. A quick note on the place of the sacraments in sola fide.
I, too, believe in the Real Presence. And in baptismal regeneration. To be saved through faith alone requires that faith have an object. One can't just have a foggy fuzzy faith in some undefined thing. Or faith in faith, which is nothing more than mind over matter.
Saving faith must be faith in something or someone particular. I would say faith in Christ. But how are the benefits of Christ acquired? Through means. Means of Grace.
To be crass, the sacraments are God's delivery system. When my granddad sends me a birthday present by Fed-Ex, who should be thanked? My granddad, for he is the giver of the gift. But I sure am thankful to Fed-Ex for bringing it.
Baptism and Holy Communion deliver to the sinner God's free grace, by which I mean the forgiveness of sins and eternal salvation.
I have faith in that.
Lutheranism should not be lumped in with the Reformed or sectarians. We do not see sacraments as mere acts of obedience or ordinances we must fulfill for God.
For instance, the eucharist is not primarily something I do for God but something God does for me. I do certainly respond to God's favor with my own acts of sacrifice, but I am not offered life on the basis of my sacrifices. My sacrifices are the natural and necessary responses to God's saving acts.
Oh, I have got to stop now and go visit some sick people. Smell ya later.
I, too, believe in the Real Presence. And in baptismal regeneration. To be saved through faith alone requires that faith have an object. One can't just have a foggy fuzzy faith in some undefined thing. Or faith in faith, which is nothing more than mind over matter.
Saving faith must be faith in something or someone particular. I would say faith in Christ. But how are the benefits of Christ acquired? Through means. Means of Grace.
To be crass, the sacraments are God's delivery system. When my granddad sends me a birthday present by Fed-Ex, who should be thanked? My granddad, for he is the giver of the gift. But I sure am thankful to Fed-Ex for bringing it.
Baptism and Holy Communion deliver to the sinner God's free grace, by which I mean the forgiveness of sins and eternal salvation.
I have faith in that.
Lutheranism should not be lumped in with the Reformed or sectarians. We do not see sacraments as mere acts of obedience or ordinances we must fulfill for God.
For instance, the eucharist is not primarily something I do for God but something God does for me. I do certainly respond to God's favor with my own acts of sacrifice, but I am not offered life on the basis of my sacrifices. My sacrifices are the natural and necessary responses to God's saving acts.
Oh, I have got to stop now and go visit some sick people. Smell ya later.
Hi Darrell, I completely agree that we are called to a life of good works. But I think of it this way. A good healthy apple tree bears beautiful fruit. And it doesn't have to be coerced to do so. It's just in its nature. But a dead tree bears no fruit. A person who has been regenerated by the grace of God in Christ will naturally and necessarily bear fruit because it is in the nature of a child of God to do so. We are new creations in Christ.
I'm not going to delve into the depths here, but I have a couple of quick thoughts to add.
Making any life/religious changes based on the poor actions of someone else doesn't seem quite right to me. That deacon was a disgrace, but that has nothing to do with the doctrine of sola fide. You will find Roman Catholics who act the same way.
I don't think it matters whether we believe in "faith alone" or not. What matter is how we live our lives after our faith is declared.
Are works important? Absolutely! Any one who thinks they are not has not read the Bible. Are works enough? Nope.
We are expected to have both. That is clear.
The thief on the cross did not have time to do any works. His faith was his final work, and it was enough for Christ to welcome him into heaven.
I think that people are looking for a way to "secure" heaven without making any life changes. It doesn't matter what church they belong to or what doctrines they believe. What matters is their heart. It is what God looks at.
When a person stands before God, He won't say, "Did you believe in sola fide or not?"
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My voice is indeed better. Up until recently, I wouldn't have been able to do an audio post since I didn't have enough consistent voice to do so.
I'm hoping this improvement will remain, since I've had only short term successes in the past.
Making any life/religious changes based on the poor actions of someone else doesn't seem quite right to me. That deacon was a disgrace, but that has nothing to do with the doctrine of sola fide. You will find Roman Catholics who act the same way.
I don't think it matters whether we believe in "faith alone" or not. What matter is how we live our lives after our faith is declared.
Are works important? Absolutely! Any one who thinks they are not has not read the Bible. Are works enough? Nope.
We are expected to have both. That is clear.
The thief on the cross did not have time to do any works. His faith was his final work, and it was enough for Christ to welcome him into heaven.
I think that people are looking for a way to "secure" heaven without making any life changes. It doesn't matter what church they belong to or what doctrines they believe. What matters is their heart. It is what God looks at.
When a person stands before God, He won't say, "Did you believe in sola fide or not?"
----------
My voice is indeed better. Up until recently, I wouldn't have been able to do an audio post since I didn't have enough consistent voice to do so.
I'm hoping this improvement will remain, since I've had only short term successes in the past.
Darrell,
I think a HUGE mistake that you are making, and that other Christians make, is that assuming that Sola Fide means "all you have to do is believe". That is incorrect. Simple belief will do nothing. Apparently, if I may be so bold, that is what this Decon at the church you were attending seemed to believe.
True Faith is life changing. True Faith makes us new creatures in Christ. True Faith gives us the Holy Spirit. If we have True Fatih, sin will grieve us and the Holy Spirit within us.
When I sin, I feel shame. Shame at chosing to separate myself from the presense of God in my life. Shame at letting Him down. From this shame comes repentence, confession, and forgiveness.
From your description, this Deacon did not. It is a shame that his example drove you from that church. It may drive others away from Christ entirely. It is something I believe he will have to answer for.
Now, for the proverbial "Other Side Of The Coin"...
The problem with the Faith + Works model is that I believe it says Christ's sacrifice was insufficient. We need to do something to make ourselves worthy. Well, we shall NEVER be worthy.
As you know, I don't believe in the Real Presence, and I have a strong, Biblical foundation as to why I do not. I still want to receive communion in the Baptist church I attend as often as I can, as it was something that we were commanded to do. However, I don't believe my salvation would depend on it. If our salvation is dependent on sacraments, how many times is enough? How many times must we receive communion? How about confession? I mean, we all sin. Are we to spend our lives in mortal terror that we may commit what the Catholics consider a "mortal" sin but not have it forgiven in confession?
Seriously, what kind of life is that? What good can one be to the Kingdom of Heaven if one is terrified of going to Hell? Its like when they were building the Brooklyn Bridge. Many people fell to their deaths, and thus the bridge wasn't getting built very quickly. So they instituted safety measures, and it was completed. That is how I view my Christian walk. I know in my heart that I am saved. Christ died for my many many sins. I don't have to worry about going to hell. Since I don't have to worry, I can now work for the Kingdom with confidence, trying to pull as many people out of the fires as I can before I am taken from this world. I could not do this if I wasn't sure I was already saved.
Instead of The Greatest Trick, I'd have to say that Sola Fide is The Greatest Misunderstanding.
Pardon my disjointed thoughts. Still under some serious pain meds here, being post surgery.
Excellent post, my friend!
I think a HUGE mistake that you are making, and that other Christians make, is that assuming that Sola Fide means "all you have to do is believe". That is incorrect. Simple belief will do nothing. Apparently, if I may be so bold, that is what this Decon at the church you were attending seemed to believe.
True Faith is life changing. True Faith makes us new creatures in Christ. True Faith gives us the Holy Spirit. If we have True Fatih, sin will grieve us and the Holy Spirit within us.
When I sin, I feel shame. Shame at chosing to separate myself from the presense of God in my life. Shame at letting Him down. From this shame comes repentence, confession, and forgiveness.
From your description, this Deacon did not. It is a shame that his example drove you from that church. It may drive others away from Christ entirely. It is something I believe he will have to answer for.
Now, for the proverbial "Other Side Of The Coin"...
The problem with the Faith + Works model is that I believe it says Christ's sacrifice was insufficient. We need to do something to make ourselves worthy. Well, we shall NEVER be worthy.
As you know, I don't believe in the Real Presence, and I have a strong, Biblical foundation as to why I do not. I still want to receive communion in the Baptist church I attend as often as I can, as it was something that we were commanded to do. However, I don't believe my salvation would depend on it. If our salvation is dependent on sacraments, how many times is enough? How many times must we receive communion? How about confession? I mean, we all sin. Are we to spend our lives in mortal terror that we may commit what the Catholics consider a "mortal" sin but not have it forgiven in confession?
Seriously, what kind of life is that? What good can one be to the Kingdom of Heaven if one is terrified of going to Hell? Its like when they were building the Brooklyn Bridge. Many people fell to their deaths, and thus the bridge wasn't getting built very quickly. So they instituted safety measures, and it was completed. That is how I view my Christian walk. I know in my heart that I am saved. Christ died for my many many sins. I don't have to worry about going to hell. Since I don't have to worry, I can now work for the Kingdom with confidence, trying to pull as many people out of the fires as I can before I am taken from this world. I could not do this if I wasn't sure I was already saved.
Instead of The Greatest Trick, I'd have to say that Sola Fide is The Greatest Misunderstanding.
Pardon my disjointed thoughts. Still under some serious pain meds here, being post surgery.
Excellent post, my friend!
I get the impression that maybe what much of I'm reacting to is really a perversion of Sola Fide.
Guess I should have read ahead, eh? ;)
You know, I am a Baptist in Pittsburgh. There are VERY few of us here. The largest denomination is Catholicism. What you are seeing is what I call "Born-into-ism". Example: Around here, there are a lot of people who call themselves Catholic. They don't go to mass, they don't go to confession. One guy I know doesn't even believe in God. But say ONE THING against Catholicism and they will try to verbally rip you apart. Needless to say, I had a VERY bad impression of Catholicism growing up. Most of my friends were Catholic. In my first grade class, about 85% were Catholic. It wasn't a denomination that people chose. It was something they were born into. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't Catholics in Pittsburgh who are saved and live Godly lives. Quite the contrary. However, to judge Catholicism by the average Joe Catholic here in Pittsburgh is to do it an injustice.
I believe the same is true about the Baptists you grew up around. To judge fundimentalism by the examples of Billy Joe Jim Bob Baptist in your neck of the woods will give you a skewed perspective.
Guess I should have read ahead, eh? ;)
You know, I am a Baptist in Pittsburgh. There are VERY few of us here. The largest denomination is Catholicism. What you are seeing is what I call "Born-into-ism". Example: Around here, there are a lot of people who call themselves Catholic. They don't go to mass, they don't go to confession. One guy I know doesn't even believe in God. But say ONE THING against Catholicism and they will try to verbally rip you apart. Needless to say, I had a VERY bad impression of Catholicism growing up. Most of my friends were Catholic. In my first grade class, about 85% were Catholic. It wasn't a denomination that people chose. It was something they were born into. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't Catholics in Pittsburgh who are saved and live Godly lives. Quite the contrary. However, to judge Catholicism by the average Joe Catholic here in Pittsburgh is to do it an injustice.
I believe the same is true about the Baptists you grew up around. To judge fundimentalism by the examples of Billy Joe Jim Bob Baptist in your neck of the woods will give you a skewed perspective.
Jamie Dawn, the Deacon I mentioned wasn't the deciding factor, just one of the last straws. The road I direction I was going in had been shaped by QUITE a few factors.
Pastor Scott, Name Hidden, you both make good points, and I can see that it might be a good idea to get into some of those nuances. When, for instance, Christ said "Go in peace, your faith has saved you," what did he mean? Was it faith as in intellectual acceptence (surely not) or faith as in faithfulness... and if we mean faithfulness, don't we mean a behavior as well as an attitude? By behavior, don't we mean works?
Pastor Scott, your comment about the apple tree was solid and fits right in: "By their fruits will you know them."
I think a part two is gonna have to follow this post. Thanks, everyone, who's commented so far!
Pastor Scott, Name Hidden, you both make good points, and I can see that it might be a good idea to get into some of those nuances. When, for instance, Christ said "Go in peace, your faith has saved you," what did he mean? Was it faith as in intellectual acceptence (surely not) or faith as in faithfulness... and if we mean faithfulness, don't we mean a behavior as well as an attitude? By behavior, don't we mean works?
Pastor Scott, your comment about the apple tree was solid and fits right in: "By their fruits will you know them."
I think a part two is gonna have to follow this post. Thanks, everyone, who's commented so far!
Me again. Good discussion.
"Your faith has saved you."
Darrell, you give only two choices: intellectual acceptance or faithfulness. I'd say neither one. Intellectual acceptance is only a part of faith. I'd say faith as in believing, accepting, and laying hold of the promises of Christ. This is not a mere head game or cognitive exercise. The Reformers were really clear about that.
The Gk word for faith is sometimes understood as faithfulness or fidelity. The primary meaning of the word, however, is belief, trust, confidence. The only way to discern which meaning is intended is by context.
Let the Scriptures interpret themselves. Faith is defined by Hebrews 11:1. "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see."
Of course, such confidence WILL result in faithfulness, but must be distinguished from it.
I think you are quoting Luke 7:50. What does the context best suggest? Faith as it is defined by Hebrews or faithfulness. The context is a sinful woman who worships Jesus.
Jesus said her faith saved her. When did that happen? Before her acts of worship or after? Was she saved as a result of her faithfulness or was her faithfulness a natural and necessary result of having been saved/forgiven? I think the second option is the only one that fits.
My exegetical opinion is that she'd come to faith (not mere intellectual acceptance) prior to this dinner and that her love and joy overflowed as a result of her being absolved.
Why would she have shown such tender devotion to Jesus, if she'd not already come to understand him as her savior?
Is she weepinp and anointing his feet as a way to grovel and seek grace? Or having received grace, her acts of devotion are freely offered in love and thankfulness.
What is grace, afterall? The greek word "charis" means gift. Who works for a gift? Grace, in order to be grace, must be given freely and precisely to those who do not deserve it. Having received such a gift cannot but transform the recipient and change his/her life.
"Your faith has saved you."
Darrell, you give only two choices: intellectual acceptance or faithfulness. I'd say neither one. Intellectual acceptance is only a part of faith. I'd say faith as in believing, accepting, and laying hold of the promises of Christ. This is not a mere head game or cognitive exercise. The Reformers were really clear about that.
The Gk word for faith is sometimes understood as faithfulness or fidelity. The primary meaning of the word, however, is belief, trust, confidence. The only way to discern which meaning is intended is by context.
Let the Scriptures interpret themselves. Faith is defined by Hebrews 11:1. "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see."
Of course, such confidence WILL result in faithfulness, but must be distinguished from it.
I think you are quoting Luke 7:50. What does the context best suggest? Faith as it is defined by Hebrews or faithfulness. The context is a sinful woman who worships Jesus.
Jesus said her faith saved her. When did that happen? Before her acts of worship or after? Was she saved as a result of her faithfulness or was her faithfulness a natural and necessary result of having been saved/forgiven? I think the second option is the only one that fits.
My exegetical opinion is that she'd come to faith (not mere intellectual acceptance) prior to this dinner and that her love and joy overflowed as a result of her being absolved.
Why would she have shown such tender devotion to Jesus, if she'd not already come to understand him as her savior?
Is she weepinp and anointing his feet as a way to grovel and seek grace? Or having received grace, her acts of devotion are freely offered in love and thankfulness.
What is grace, afterall? The greek word "charis" means gift. Who works for a gift? Grace, in order to be grace, must be given freely and precisely to those who do not deserve it. Having received such a gift cannot but transform the recipient and change his/her life.
Darrell,
What have you done????? May I make a suggestion for your next post? Can we see the McDonald's Tattoo Guy again? ;-)
What have you done????? May I make a suggestion for your next post? Can we see the McDonald's Tattoo Guy again? ;-)
Yes, Jambrander.. we call him "Sole McTat", and Darrell will be happy to post a lengthy discussion concerning the actual or imagined presence of ecstacy in his bloodstream within the next day or so.
Jambander, Rhodester, Ha ha ha. Ha.
This is gonna require more than one post, isn't it? We're getting more specific. Thanks for your comments, Pastor Scott. Since we're starting to put a finer point on it, I think I better plan to do a second part to this post when I get a chance... and make sure I can site my sources and have my ducks in a row. Maybe Thursday or Friday, probably no time tomorrow since I have to work 12 hours.
This is gonna require more than one post, isn't it? We're getting more specific. Thanks for your comments, Pastor Scott. Since we're starting to put a finer point on it, I think I better plan to do a second part to this post when I get a chance... and make sure I can site my sources and have my ducks in a row. Maybe Thursday or Friday, probably no time tomorrow since I have to work 12 hours.
I'm a little late to this party having spent the evening snuggling with Mrs.Write.
But I happened to have written out my beliefs yesterday for all of the world to see, wherein I state I am a man of "salvation through faith."
Faith is a choice. The choice of faith in Christ saves us. That salvation transforms us. That transformation motivates and equips us to do good works.
Thus Christ's sacrifice is sufficient, and our good works are by-products of His ultimate work.
But I happened to have written out my beliefs yesterday for all of the world to see, wherein I state I am a man of "salvation through faith."
Faith is a choice. The choice of faith in Christ saves us. That salvation transforms us. That transformation motivates and equips us to do good works.
Thus Christ's sacrifice is sufficient, and our good works are by-products of His ultimate work.
Amen, Jerry. That's just what I believe based upon the Holy Scriptures. And if good deeds are not there, well, lets just say that one must question the tree if it does not bear fruit.
I've read the rules rigorously, I've read the post and the comments, and I'm as gormless as I was before i started. I have some strongly held, but intuitive, feelings about faith and salvation, and I'm stuggling, so I'll keep reading and hope some wisdom joins my intuition. Or is it self-delusion? this is where it gets tough....
I made a deal with myself when I finished reading the original post. If someone in the comments mentions the importance of the Holy Spirit in this, I wouldn't feel the need to comment. Otherwise I would. So there is this above about the Holy Spirit being the result of faith. Oh, I'm not sure that's exactly it. From Romans 8:9, I know that it's silly to claim faith without any knowledge of the Spirit beyond something intellectual. Then one is left with what the criteria is for accepting that one truly has both faith and the Spirit living within me. I would start with Romans 8:9 for that.
I'm not going to try to go through that again myself. Regarding "sola fide", it certainly leaves something out about what constitutes true faith.
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I'm not going to try to go through that again myself. Regarding "sola fide", it certainly leaves something out about what constitutes true faith.
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