Sunday, July 16, 2006

 

The Armchair Apologist: Sola Fide Part III - Summation





The Armchair Apologist is a series of posts at SouthCon dedicated to matters of faith and religion. Click here to see an index of Armchair Apologist posts. You are welcome to comment on any of these items, but before commenting, please READ THE RULES. To suggest a topic or make a comment by e-mail, send your remarks to armchair@darwen.us




Sola Fide, Part 3: Summation And (I Hope) Refinement

Thanks to everyone who participated in first and second parts of my Sola Fide discussion. I really appreciate everyone's input, and while I'm sure that none of us made any converts from one side to the other, I do feel like I learned some things. I learned a lot about the origins of Sola Fide, thanks to Pastor Scott, a Lutheran Pastor who is deeply steeped in Martin Luther's teachings and ideas. And I learned a lot about the ideas and the faith of some of my blogging buddies. So again, from the bottom of my heart, thanks.

Along the way, Pastor Scott posted the following bit of advice about apologetics:

When doing apologetics, we all have to beware of the Straw Man fallacy. That is, we don't want to prop up our opponents like a straw man, stuffing them with fluff, so that it's easier to knock them down. Probably every debater and polemicist is guilty of doing this to some extent.


I appreciate that advice very much, and I was glad to receive it. It's a good guide, and I plan to try very hard to follow it. Looking back over some of what I've written, both in the posts themselves and in the comments, I think there have been times when I've been building and punching straw men. Please bear with me, I am the definition of an amateur.

And so, in closing, to the degree that anyone is interested, here's where I currently stand on Sola Fide in the aftermath of these discussions...

  • The Catholic Church was engaged in some terrible practices about the time that Luther posted his list of complaints on that church door. That's not news to anyone, including and especially us Catholics. It is fair to say, in a way, that by taking action, Luther played a major role in saving the Church from many of it's own powerful, corrupt members.


  • The doctrine of Sola Fide grew out of Luther's understanding of how salvation works, and was largely a response to many of those corrupt practices. In this day and age, however, there are about a zillion possible interpretations and variations of Sola Fide. Some of them are legitimate Christianity. Some of them are blatant antinomianism.


  • Because legitimate faith always leads to a genuine Christian life, which includes genuine Christian behavior, I remain unconvinced that you can separate Christian faith from Christian works in any practical sense.


  • I believe that the only practical reason for making the distinction and for arguing in favor of Sola Fide is simply to try to establish a theological barrier between Protestantism and Catholicism. Scott Hahn is a former Presbyterian minister and a Catholic convert. In a recorded talk distributed on CD by The Mary Foundation, Hahn says that as a Protestant he was taught that Sola Fide was the doctrine by which the Protestant faith "stands or falls." I'd argue that at this point, Sola Fide is simply the doctrine that props up Protestantism and justifies it's extraneous existence. I know that that statement is going to seem like a slap in the face, but I promise you that it's not intended to be. It's not that I think Protestantism in-and-of-itself is evil or even bad… I simply see it as unnecessary.


  • The corrupt practices that Luther argued against have been (as far as I know) stopped. To the degree that Luther's doctrine of Sola Fide was an argument against "buying" or "working" your way into Heaven, I think it was a good thing. I'm convinced, though, that making these distinctions between faith and works in this day and age is entirely an academic matter. In the last few days I've more or less come to believe that Christ himself would probably think that our arguing about the matter is, ultimately, just a distraction. Considering that I'm the guy who brought it up, this makes me feel kinda silly!


  • Sooooooo.... to the degree that Sola Fide means "Salvation comes by full and active faith, and that salvation cannot be bought or bargained for," I agree with it. However, any interpretation of Sola Fide that argues that good works aren’t even necessary for the Christian life and for salvation is an error. An error, and, in my estimation, a road to hell.


And there you have it! I officially declare my interest in debating Sola Fide to be over. Feel free to leave summary comments at this post if you want, but I think I'm done with this topic. For now.

When I get my ideas in order, I intend to move on to some other topics, and I hope to do a better job of debating the actual theological doctrines and to prop up fewer straw men. Some of the topics I want to approach include:

Sola Scriptura
What, as a Christian, would you say is the foundation and pillar of truth? Would you say it's holy scripture, i.e. the Bible? If so, you might be interested to know that the Bible itself doesn't agree with you. Check out First Timothy 3:15 sometime.

Pluralism
C.S. Lewis once wrote about "Christianity and water," the premise that some people dilute their religious practices to make Christianity easier to swallow. I think that in this day and age there's actually a bigger threat to the Christian faith than "Christianity and water." Because of the successful marketing of various age old heresies (gnosticism, pseudo-PanAsianism, "new age" ideas, etc) there are a number of Christians who claim to incorporate bits and pieces of other religions into their faith. They claim to borrow from various religions and end up really following none of them. Christianity and water is a bad thing. Christianity and strange waters is even worse.

Intelligent Design
Some people claim that the concept of "intelligent design," which merely theorizes that our universe was actually intentionally created by some sort of intelligence, is an attempt to "smuggle" religion into public school systems. I disagree. In fact, I believe that teaching "intelligent design" is actually counter-productive and downright destructive to the Christian formation of young people. I hope to explain why with some degree of coherence and intelligence.

I look forward to further debate and discussion… and, again, thanks!


Comments:
Hi Darrell,
Thank you for engaging in this exhilerating discussion. I mean that. It is helpful for us to bounce these things back and forth.

A couple of concluding thoughts and then I understand that you want to move along to something new.

When we say that we are saved through faith alone, what do we really mean? Are we saying that repentance is unessential? No. The Lutheran Confessions understand repentance to be part of saving faith and faith to be part of repentance. Are we saying that good works are unimportant? No. It is clear that a person who apprehends what Christ has done and appropriates those treasures for himself will produce works of love toward his neighbor. As Luther says, "It is as impossible to separate faith from works as it is to separate heat from light in fire."

It seems to me that what we are really saying with sola fide is that the sinner is saved solely and completely by Jesus Christ. We really mean solus Christus. We are acknowledging that I can add nothing to the work of Christ for my salvation, that His work is complete and sufficient to save me and all sinners.

You are right that faith and works cannot be separated or divided. But I believe they should be distinguished. And this for very practical and pastoral reasons.

I frequently have this conversation with people.

Old Guy Dying in Nursing Home: Pastor, I'm afraid to die.

Stiegemeyer: Tell me what you fear.

Old Guy: I've not lived a good life. I haven't done enough. I haven't been a very good Christian.

Stieg: That's true. You are not good enough. You haven't done enough. Thankfully, Jesus has done it. He is righteous. And He has atoned for your sins. And God is crediting the righteousness of Jesus to you. As long as you look at yourself, you will be discouraged. So stop looking at yourself and put your eyes on Jesus Christ. Now let's have confession/absolution and the eucharist together.
 
Pastor Scott,

Thanks, as always.

"It is as impossible to separate faith from works as it is to separate heat from light in fire."

I LOVE that quote. I'd never heard it before and I LOVE it. It is amazing to me to have read that Luther supposedly had such disdain for the Epistle of James. I'm starting to think that this so-called "disdain" has been over inflated by Luther's opponents. My gut reaction is that anyone who could say the quote attributed to Luther above totally agrees with the epistle of James. Anyway, I absolutely love that quote. Love it, love it, love it.

By the way, have you seen this film about Luther? If so, is it worth seeing?

We really mean solus Christus.

Now THERE's a "sola" doctrine I can get behind. I love the sound of that.

As far as your hypothetical conversation with the old guy in the nursing home, it sounds pretty much like the exact kind of conversation I'd expect one of our priests to have with that hypothetical old guy. The more we discuss this issue, the more I begin to believe that there isn't all that much difference between what we RCs belive and what Lutherans believe. Which begs the question... why is it that we as Catholics aren't in communion with the Lutheran (LCMS) Church anyway?

Oh, yeah... the Pope thing. We'll debate that another day. ;)

Thanks, as always. You rule, Pastor Scott.
 
Hey Darrell,

It's funny you say: "The more we discuss this issue, the more I begin to believe that there isn't all that much difference between what we RCs belive and what Lutherans believe."

Last night, Sunday, I was on the radio with another local lutheran pastor. We do a talk call-in show every sunday night from 9-10 on a Christian station. Our show is called "Let's Talk About Jesus."

And coincidentally, this subject came up. And one of our callers was a 32 yr old Roman Catholic lady who said she couldn't hear much diff btwn what we were saying and what she hears from her priest.

I think it's true that when actual Roman Catholics and actual Lutherans talk to each other, there is much common ground. Of course, old stereotypes still abide on both sides.

I'm not saying there aren't differences, but I wonder if Martin Luther were alive today what he'd think. I think it would please him very much for us to work harder toward communion. He never set out to break away. He saw himself always as a son of Rome who tried to Reform the Church, not start a new church.

The Luther quote I used which you love is also included in the Book of Concord which is a collection of 16th century documents which spell out what the Reformers were getting at.

But of course, the thing about quoting Luther, or any mere human being, is that it's hit or miss. I certainly would not defend everything Martin Luther ever said. The Lutheran churches are not founded on him, nor did he like people being called Lutherans. Actually, the word "Lutheran" was used by his critics and it just kinda stuck. Some Lutherans prefer the term "Evangelical Catholics" or simply "Christians."

The Luther movie you asked about is good, in my opinion. It's maybe a bit too long and boring toward the end, but it is really tough to get everything in. Good historical dramas are hard to make because history is not all explosions and car chases. This film is well made, is pretty historically accurate and I think Joseph Fiennes did a good job of capturing Luther's passion and wit.

But Peter Ustinov steals the show as Duke Frederick the Wise. It was his last performance. But if a person wants to get a feel for the man and the issues that were alive at the time, this film is a great place to start.

Oh yeah, and I loved Alfred Molina as John Tetzel. He took it to the brink. And in fact, Tetzel was later chastised by Rome for his tactics.
 
I really admire the humility with which this whole post is ridden---or written, if you'd rather. So much to learn....
 
Lorna, is it hard to talk like that with your tongue so firmly embedded in cheek?
 
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