Saturday, September 18, 2004
Civil Discourse
The other day someone posted what I thought were some intelligent opposing arguments in the comments section here at this blog. The writer encouraged me to respond by e-mail, which I did, and I told him I’d like to post my response at the blog if he didn’t object. My idea being that if he (she? I’m not sure.) was interested in a private conversation about the issues, I’d keep it private. Well, I never heard back, so I’m assuming that he/she doesn’t want to discuss the issues further and that he/she doesn’t object to me posting my comments. As I said in the e-mail, I thought that the comments were really well thought out and intelligent, and I think that the opportunity to exchange ideas in a civil manner with people we disagree with is one of the best things about blogging. So I’m posting clips from the comments, with my responses, in the hopes that in some small way this will promote civil discourse between people with opposing viewpoints:
n What is wrong with George W. Bush? I don't mean the little imperfections that we all have, I mean what are his serious problems, in your opinion, the ones that would/should discourage voters from supporting him?
I see what you’re getting at here. No person is perfect, so no president is perfect, and it does seem that a lot of us conservatives support Bush blindly. I think the reason for that is because it’s been such an ugly campaign. In fact, the Bush-bashing has been really bad since before the campaign started, and Kerry has taken his share of unfair hits as well. With Bush, though, the hatred that’s been aimed at him by those who disagree with him has been extraordinary. The whole “Bush is Hitler / Bush is an idiot / Bush is evil” rap really brings conservatives to his defense pretty adamantly, so it sure looks like everyone either hates Dubya with a passion or thinks he walks on water. In reality, we’re both reacting to the extreme fringes of our two sides of the political argument. I imagine that there’s more common ground in the mainstream of both parties than one might think these days.
So, for the record, I don’t think Bush is perfect. My support of him is largely rooted in the way he’s responded to 9/11, based on my belief that the only way to deal with terrorists is with active, aggressive, dogged pursuit of them and those who support them. Dubya has won me over in the last three years, but I must confess that I didn’t vote for him in 2000. I was a McCain supporter and felt that Bush was a far inferior candidate to John McCain… so as my own little “protest,” I voted for the Libertarian candidate.
The areas where I disagree with Bush include:
1) Immigration. Bush panders on this issue and simply isn’t tough enough on illegal aliens. I have nothing against legit immigrants, but illegals should be treated like the criminals that they are until they are willing to become legal immigrants.
2) Iraq: I think the president waited too long to invade. We should have been in there before the end of 2002. We had every legal, moral, and ethical reason to topple Saddam long before 9/11 ever even happened. Once it did, however, I think we should have crushed his regime before he saw us coming instead of giving him time to disperse his WMDs before we got there.
3) The Marriage Amendment: Bush is dead wrong on this issue. This is something that should be decided by the states. It would “dumb down” the Constitution. I have more faith in the states than that. I think he has supported the amendment because he knows it’s dead in the water, so it’s an easy way to appeal to his base without really doing anything. I think he’s going for the P.R. on that one.
4) North Korea: I was steadfastly with the president when his policy toward North Korea was one of passive engagement. Each move he makes to soften that stance disappoints me greatly.
5) The Death Penalty: I oppose it. He’s for it.
n Liberals, like me, it is said are their own worst enemies, because part of our philosophical DNA involves respect for other points of view. We force ourselves to try and see where the opponent is coming from. Yes, I know you can name a dozen prominent left-wing exceptions to that rule. But I'm not talking about exceptions, I'm talking about the common perception. The common perception of conservatives is that they are not burdened by such pluralistic fantasies, and feel little need to respect or even listen to other points of view.
The funny thing about this is that I think a lot of us conservatives think that the situation is exactly the opposite: We see ourselves as more tolerant, more accepting of different opinions, and we see liberals as very intolerant, very politically correct, and out to silence any group or individual that disagrees with their ideas about diversity, politics, the economy, environment, etc. Again, I think we’re each reacting to the extreme elements on each side rather than the mainstream. It’s the extreme left that reacts to conservatives by comparing us to Hitler, calling us racist if we don’t support affirmative action, and insisting that we’re all blood-thirsty war pigs. Conversely, it’s the extreme right that over reacts to all liberals, calling them all godless, communist hippy-scum. Even the ones who are clean-cut, God-fearing capitalists.
n I am a supporter of Kerry. And this supporter of Kerry is now saying that much of what you wrote here as criticism of Kerry is true. And it disgusts me. But I support Kerry because in Bush I see worse. Blatant shortcomings, ones that transcend ideology or politics for me. Enough serious problems that it is impossible for me to believe that any thinking person is blind to them, even if they do consider Kerry's shortcomings to be worse.
We’re at opposite sides of that issue, that’s obvious. But, I would like to hear more of your opinion, and I’ll gladly post it here and try to respond to it in kind. What are the shortcomings that you see in Bush? Most of mine area areas where he simply isn’t conservative enough for me, so it’s probably not likely that you and I agree on exactly what the shortcomings are. Nonetheless, I’d like to hear more of your opinion. You presented yourself well with your first comments, and I'm confident that you'd continue to do so.
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Well, the topic of metaphysical debate seems to be at the core of these individuals of intelligent opposing arguments; if my opinion is valid......
The ABBies just want to have fun...in their twisted manner. I think that they would argue black was white; if it would serve their purpose. I'm to old for that shiite!...
That's why I think John Forbes Kerry appeals to them...he is a master-debater! It's one area of the human condition where he actually walks the walk and talks the talk; in addition to just plain "looking the part of a girlie man" in heat...
Oral intercourse takes on a whole new meaning with these dolts. They present a seemingly good argument but soon their mission unfolds...they are TROLLS or just lonely teenagers...or both...
Good fortune to you in dealing with the drive by posters and the dialogue posers. They are everywhere. Good for you; in writing a letter to the editor! If all of us who love the United States will take the time to just write one well thought out letter; perhaps THE ELITE MEDIA will get a clue in how many thinking people are aware of their guile.
Blog On!Mike
Bastard by choice!
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The ABBies just want to have fun...in their twisted manner. I think that they would argue black was white; if it would serve their purpose. I'm to old for that shiite!...
That's why I think John Forbes Kerry appeals to them...he is a master-debater! It's one area of the human condition where he actually walks the walk and talks the talk; in addition to just plain "looking the part of a girlie man" in heat...
Oral intercourse takes on a whole new meaning with these dolts. They present a seemingly good argument but soon their mission unfolds...they are TROLLS or just lonely teenagers...or both...
Good fortune to you in dealing with the drive by posters and the dialogue posers. They are everywhere. Good for you; in writing a letter to the editor! If all of us who love the United States will take the time to just write one well thought out letter; perhaps THE ELITE MEDIA will get a clue in how many thinking people are aware of their guile.
Blog On!Mike
Bastard by choice!
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